New Playoff System preview

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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby yoopernib2 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:24 am

Wow lighting speed looks good, Hematites keep their two rivalries so i'm good with that. See your predicting Gogebic going small probably a good bet in a year or two, also and I hate to see it my second favorite team LLH going 8 man. So who's going to bitch from what I get reading on this forum, Negaunee, Iron Mountain?? anyone else.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby upfootball » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:15 am

I put Gogebic in the small division because their program needs to be built before they can think about playoffs. They are not good enough to play in the large Division where they belong by enrollment but I assigned them some close OOC games against the two large Division programs they might be competitive with eventually.

I would think IM would be good with this schedule. I removed them from large Division based on the new teams going in and IM anticipating an enrollment drop. They get some easier games but can boost their playoff points with a rivalry game against Kingsford and playing one division up against Westwood.

Negaunee. This is how they should play. They get 35-40 kids on their varsity roster. One of the best participation programs in the UP. They keep all rivalries in this setup and are not forced to play Escanaba. They cannot bitch about playing Menominee. Same division. Gladstone same division. Kingsford barely one division up. As for playing three divisions up to play rival Marquette in an OOC game.... Negaunee's roster is almost always larger than Marquette's. Yes Marquette is a bigger school. Got a chance at some playoff points there even if they lose. If they really had that much heartburn playing Marquette wouldn't that make them a hypocrite for wanting to play down 2 divisions against Ishpeming who has half the roster Negaunee does? All of that said I think Negaunee will be fine with this proposal. I am assuming all of their past decisions were based on the six win playoff system which is long gone. This proposal gets them competitive games against schools their own size and to offset the cost of playing down to play Ishpeming to keep that rivalry game going, they get to rekindle the rivalry with Marquette which boosts their playoff strength.

Marquette and Escanaba could have a gripe because of travel. Both need to face reality in football though, for two different reasons. If Marquette truly wants to have the same shot at the playoffs as most other D3 team in the State, they need to start playing Class A schools and join the Big North.... reminder this is for football only... That will require more travel and unfortunately not enough room on the schedule for Menominee and Kingsford. The advantage of doing this will allow them to play down once against Negaunee and continue a great rivalry game. Escanaba's reality is that outside of the current GNC schools nobody will agree to play them in the UP. They have a roster of 40-50 kids and are a solid D4. I feel for them but they have to accept it and move on to the Big North. The good news is it would help them with the new playoff system because they would be instantly competitive in this larger conference with some solid teams. I also feel the Big North would accept two UP schools as it would only require one trip a year to the UP. Something many of them already do.

Sault Ste Marie I left in their new conference they had setup before the playoff system change. The teams they play in that division will benefit from playing them. As for their own playoff chances? Based on where the program is. Slim. But I did give them a game against Marquette to boost playoff points and Harbor Springs to try and get a win on their schedule.

In general OOC games have none of the stupid mandatory crossover crap. Programs can schedule who they want. I left week 7 open for OOC rivalries because I think week 7 is a great week to play them in my opinion. The lead up to those games in the offseason and the first 2/3 of the actual season makes it more fun. The rest of the OOC games I like to see in the first week or two if possible. I hated when the two best teams in the conference met in week 1. Lets get some games under their belt first. Plus Wisconsin has openings in week one usually if needed. Yet as you noticed... this proposal requires very few Wisconsin OOC games.

Obviously I like my own proposal. Just curious what others with a different viewpoint see.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby yoopernib2 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:40 am

Obviously Iron Mountain, Kingsford, and Negaunee, Marquette getting their games back is a real plus, think there's a better chance now. So what's the story with my friends down the hill, Jacobson won a state championship in D6 2002, they get a good turnout so what's wrong. Right on with Gogebic, Marquette's trip to TCSF hopefully comes to an end soon 0-5, be nice to see them get a win first. Again sad to lose 3 teams to 8 man hopefully some come back,l and we don't lose more. Think my Hematites are OK we have a good bunch coming from the grade school watched some of their games and a few old name are going to reappear, sons maybe grandsons, good to see. Still like the concept of an all in playoff, one scenario team picks two teams to play then it's lottery time, how fun would that be!! Ya never going to happen but think of the fun!!!!!
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby GNCrocks » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:20 pm

My thoughts and 1 really FUN what/if question

Thoughts:
1. The new playoff system, like ANY system, has its issues. However, this is LIGHT years better than the current system or the old playoff points only with just 8 teams per class. I don't think that larger schools will start ducking lower schools because as mentioned before 95% of D1 & D2 schools are in large metro areas. Example" D2 TC West playing D4 Escanaba does NOT hurt TCW, Especially if Escanaba continues to be a playoff contender. While yes it helps Escanaba more. A WIN over a 7-2 D4 Escanaba will hold more weight than a win over a 2-7 D3 Petoskey school. So there is that.

2. What is also missing from this equation is when you start doing the maths. 8 or even dare 7 game schedules don't work out too well. Teams who have ducked better competition in favor of an open spot, will be far better rewarded to go take there medicine in a big loss vs. leaving an open date. A D6 school would get more reward losing to D3/D4 school than it would be to leave an open date, and nearly have as much weight as beating a D8 school.

3. I like the proposed INNER U.P. schedule. But I think that ALL schools even smaller D6-D8 schools are better served always having at least 1 OOC game with a team 4+ hours away in WI or LP. Its just more exciting.


Fun What/If:
While you never want to make any educational decisions based on sports. With the soon to come Escanaba Holy Name (which in my guess would have a 8 man team by year 10, but would co-op with Escanaba for Football and larger sports for a while) putting Escanaba more in the high 500's low 600 enrollment....my huge what if question is this....If Marquette were to split into TWO 500/600 enrollment High schools doesn't this solve 90% of UP scheduling issues? The weak-sauce duckers like Negaunee and IM would be more likely to play them and MQT would not be this 1-off out there come playoff time in most sports. The only issue would be its current culture would not support two teams like 2 separate 500/600 enrollments schools would.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby Hambone » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:03 pm

Why oh why would Marquette split into two HS and have the extra overhead of running another building? Last time I checked the primary responsibility of a school was to educate kids, not to run a crazy operation to schedule football games. Marquette is fighting about a mascot, now you have a foolish idea about two schools?

Also, no one benefits from 4+ hour bus trips. As someone whose school put on 1600 miles + round trip the last four weeks of the 2018 season, not one thing was gained from the travel. One trip over 200 miles is unnecessary if you can find closer options.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby upfootball » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:02 am

I agree. I see more small schools closing and combining with other schools in the future. Schools that are close to other schools. Think of all the money you would save in facilities costs and administration costs. I'm honestly surprised it hasn't started already.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby yoopernib2 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:59 pm

upfootball name the schools your talking about????
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby upfootball » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:24 am

Let me clarify. This isn't an MHSAA thing. I think this will eventually be pushed by the State. Pitched to the local governments. Education is expensive.

If I could name an easy example of a hypothetical combining of schools.... Kingsford and Iron Mountain. They are separated by only Woodward avenue. Kingsford could absorb IM right now in the facilities they currently have. Easily if IM's projected enrollment decrease over the next decade is accurate.

What would you save locally? A ton. Starting with the elimination of all the administrators it takes to have two separate school systems, Throw in the dual education facilities. Throw in the athletic facilities. The IM and Kingsford communities sharing the costs on their taxes instead of each funding their own.

I mean IM is already combining things. They got rid of their AD and have one of principles doing both roles. Look for more of that from them coming.

Apply that logic to all similar situations in the State. The overall cost savings is enormous.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby JustAyooper » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:48 am

Another logical combine is West Iron and Forest Park. FP enrollment keeps dropping and dropping, and I could see a potential combine.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby Hambone » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:25 am

Really FP and WIC? The two schools are 16 miles from each other and refuse to schedule any sporting events against each other. The divide between the east and western part of the county is real.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby JustAyooper » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:52 pm

They schedule each other in every sport besides football, because FP is 8 man
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby Hambone » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:44 pm

Do your research, FP and WIC have played each other 4 times from 87-90. They never played before, and didn't play after 1990. I've heard different stories as to why they didn't play, with both schools primarily blaming each other why two schools 16 miles apart couldn't get it done.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby upfootball » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:12 pm

Lake Linden to 8 man starting this year is official.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby JustAyooper » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:50 am

With LL-H down, what do you guys think happens with the West PAC?
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby yoopernib2 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:35 pm

JustAyooper wrote:With LL-H down, what do you guys think happens with the West PAC?

Don't forget I think Munising is going 8 man in 2020 and Norway in 2021, that's three 11 man teams from the WestPac going 8 man.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby Hambone » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:28 pm

Time for realignment! Add Kingsford, Gladstone and Menominee to the large division. Move the next three smallest down.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby JustAyooper » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:02 pm

And then what about those last few GNC teams? They’re stuck in this situation too. Is there still any “rumor” about some of the bigger WPAC schools leaving to join some smaller GNC schools? And what would Norway do since they’re not moving to 8 man for this season? They wouldn’t be playing for a playoff spot next season if they dropped, might as well try 11 for this last coming up season.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby Hambone » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:16 pm

There are two GNC teams left, Marquette and Escanaba. They need to schedule schools their own size in the new playoff format as much as possible. Looks like the GNC schools filled schedules for this year, changes would need to start for 2021.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby yoopernib2 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:45 pm

Hambone wrote:Time for realignment! Add Kingsford, Gladstone and Menominee to the large division. Move the next three smallest down.

But how, by school size or past football performance?? By last years numbers if you move the smallest schools in the West Pac copper they would be Iron Mountain at 303, L'Anse 321,and Calumet with 377. By comparison in the West Pac Iron the 5 teams left Manistique would be the largest with 291 and Ishpeming the smallest at 217.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby Hambone » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:59 pm

In the new playoff system, divisions are set up ahead of time try and put teams together by enrollment the best you can. No matter what someone is going to feel bad, but you are starting to run out of teams to play. Don’t close the conference so teams can renew rivalries and play up if they choose.
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Re: New Playoff System preview

Postby yoopernib2 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:23 pm

Hambone wrote:In the new playoff system, divisions are set up ahead of time try and put teams together by enrollment the best you can. No matter what someone is going to feel bad, but you are starting to run out of teams to play. Don’t close the conference so teams can renew rivalries and play up if they choose.

I'm just a fan I don't have the power to do anything, and if the truth be known two of the teams that would drop to the Iron conference stopped playing my team when we were up and they were down.
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