Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

General board to discuss Upper Peninsula football.

Moderator: Moderator Group

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby Hambone » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:17 am

For the final time, do NOT include Hurley and Northland Pines in any conference realignment ideas. Our schools were kicked out and we have moved on, Wisconsin has a football only conference plan expected to start in 2020. Neither of us would've forfeited games and we were happy with the West PAC the way it was set up before everyone got territorial. I feel bad for my friends who still coach in the conference because it's going to be a mess for years to come.
User avatar
Hambone
Moderator
 
Posts: 3709
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 2:51 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby LukeFSM » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:54 am

NeonDeion21 wrote:I apologize, I forgot it's 2018 and speaking objectively is not politically correct and is a sure fire way to offend people. :lol:
You ask me to cut Menominee some slack because they have dominated for 20 years- for sure you are right, they are one of the best programs in the history of the UP. Which has nothing to do with the fact that they directly contributed to the overall poor performance of the GNC ...THIS YEAR.
Gladstone- not down? hmmmm
Marquettte- got buried by TCSF. Wanna bet the winner of Calumet/ Westwood is better than -39 against TCSF??
Kingsford had a very hard schedule. I was surprised they lost to Esky and MQT, which is why I say they were down


This take aged well! But you were correct, Calumet only lost by 36 due to a garbage time TD. Escanaba is still playing though!
LukeFSM
UP Fan
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:57 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby trautio » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:15 pm

No excuses here. Just keep in mind TCSF had their D1 linebacker snd DB out for the Marquette game - both were hurt in a scrimmage and out all year. The DB had 3 or 4 interceptions and the LB was all over the field vs. Cal. I'm amazed that a "D6" school, little old Class C, can produce that many D1 players. hmmm
trautio
UP Fan
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby yoopernib2 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:42 pm

trautio wrote:No excuses here. Just keep in mind TCSF had their D1 linebacker snd DB out for the Marquette game - both were hurt in a scrimmage and out all year. The DB had 3 or 4 interceptions and the LB was all over the field vs. Cal. I'm amazed that a "D6" school, little old Class C, can produce that many D1 players. hmmm

Ya you would think this little private school was recruiting player or something??? No can't be....
User avatar
yoopernib2
Yooper Freak
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:57 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby Hambone » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:31 pm

With the tradition/success TCSF has had it's not even a fair matchup with them in D-6. They have a huge area to obtain talented players from, considering there are two public schools one D-1 and one D-2 in town. Talented kids from the surrounding schools also attend there. They are a prime example of why the Michigan playoff system is broken and needs retooling. In a fair playoff system they should be playing at least two divisions up. I hate the world recruiting, but the success of the program makes it an obvious choice for talented kids to want to go there.
User avatar
Hambone
Moderator
 
Posts: 3709
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 2:51 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby LukeFSM » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:43 pm

Hambone wrote:With the tradition/success TCSF has had it's not even a fair matchup with them in D-6. They have a huge area to obtain talented players from, considering there are two public schools one D-1 and one D-2 in town. Talented kids from the surrounding schools also attend there. They are a prime example of why the Michigan playoff system is broken and needs retooling. In a fair playoff system they should be playing at least two divisions up. I hate the world recruiting, but the success of the program makes it an obvious choice for talented kids to want to go there.


St Francis has never won a D-6 State Title and hasn't won a State Title since 2009, which would not have happened if Ishpeming kicked extra points. I see what you're saying, but don't think I'd go as far as to say it's unfair for them to be in D-6
LukeFSM
UP Fan
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:57 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby upfootball » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:22 pm

School of choice in an area like Traverse City.... helps. No doubt about it. If you are a well coached successful program kids want to play there. No recruiting necessary. School of choice makes it easy. It happens up here as well. More so in the Marquette area. A really good kid or two can really put a D7 school over the top if some other pieces are already in place.
User avatar
upfootball
Founder
 
Posts: 10021
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:40 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby upfootball » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:31 pm

LukeFSM wrote:
NeonDeion21 wrote:I apologize, I forgot it's 2018 and speaking objectively is not politically correct and is a sure fire way to offend people. :lol:
You ask me to cut Menominee some slack because they have dominated for 20 years- for sure you are right, they are one of the best programs in the history of the UP. Which has nothing to do with the fact that they directly contributed to the overall poor performance of the GNC ...THIS YEAR.
Gladstone- not down? hmmmm
Marquettte- got buried by TCSF. Wanna bet the winner of Calumet/ Westwood is better than -39 against TCSF??
Kingsford had a very hard schedule. I was surprised they lost to Esky and MQT, which is why I say they were down


This take aged well! But you were correct, Calumet only lost by 36 due to a garbage time TD. Escanaba is still playing though!

I'm not going to sugar coat this. The GNC is better then the WestPAC. It's not even close. The UPSSA rankings have become a pretty record contest. Nothing more. Calumet had a great year. Exceeded expectations. But anyone who thinks they were the best overall team in the UP is smoking crack. That poll is voted on by young sportswriters who get to stay in the UP for a couple years getting their feet wet before they can move on a find a job that pays a livable wage. They generally know nothing about any other teams other then the small section they cover. Hell, none of them could remember last year when Gladstone went into the MPC and mopped up the league. You know why? Many of them were still in college. They were not even here. Ok, rant over.
User avatar
upfootball
Founder
 
Posts: 10021
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:40 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby pondrocket14 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:11 pm

We can spew off opinions all day, but we dont even have common opponents to compare to, let alone games between conferences to base anything on. But, TC scored the ‘garbage time’ TD early in the fourth, not to interject facts into the good emotional discussion...
pondrocket14
Yooper Freak
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:51 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby trautio » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:13 pm

It should be a better/stronger conference. Every school in it is larger than any west-pac team - every one. The whole Gladstone thing gets me...they had a good team last year - lost to Calumet tho at the end of the year. Gladstone wasn't kicked out because they "beat up" on everyone -that's BS. You will see a UP wide conference soon. Here is my argument to you though, UP football: You defend the GNC and teams in it - like the rest of the UP owes them something. They don't. They are larger, have great tradition and 9/10, yes, will win games vs the rest of the UP. They should. So why should those smaller schools have to play them? Because it's "UP football"? See you're knocking all these schools for not playing them - when you should be knocking the system - it's 6 wins and you're in. Like it or not. It is what it is. You can't blame schools for being in a "system" they didn't create. That's the MHSAA. Again, those smaller schools don't owe the GNC anything. It's not Negaunee's fault that Marquette is the only class A school in the UP. It's not Ishpeming's fault that they play schools their size. You complain about the GNC schools having to play these larger schools, but in essence you want these smaller UP teams to do the same thing. But your response has been "well, they are 3 times their size" - but where's the cutoff - where do you draw the line? Marquette is twice the size of Negaunee, three times the size of Ishpeming. I guess who decides where that line is drawn? If you are within 150 students? 12? 476? Your argument is well Menominee is nearly the same as Negaunee...agree...gladstone...agree...what about Esky, Marquette? That's where the problem lies. I see your point and agree with it to an extent. But to continually bash these teams and the West Pac isn't the answer- they found a solution that worked best for them - what your really upset about is that it didn't work best for everyone. We get that.
Last edited by trautio on Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
trautio
UP Fan
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby pondrocket14 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:17 pm

Huh, so if Cal beat Gladstone last year, was that a 5 game winning streak against them? Interesting.
pondrocket14
Yooper Freak
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:51 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby LukeFSM » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:45 pm

pondrocket14 wrote:We can spew off opinions all day, but we dont even have common opponents to compare to, let alone games between conferences to base anything on. But, TC scored the ‘garbage time’ TD early in the fourth, not to interject facts into the good emotional discussion...


So TCSF wasn't up 28-0 in the first half, and 35-0 in the 2nd?
LukeFSM
UP Fan
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:57 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby Zarek » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:51 pm

pondrocket14 wrote:Huh, so if Cal beat Gladstone last year, was that a 5 game winning streak against them? Interesting.


*8 game*
Zarek
UP Football Guru
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:19 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby pondrocket14 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:07 pm

LukeFSM wrote:
pondrocket14 wrote:We can spew off opinions all day, but we dont even have common opponents to compare to, let alone games between conferences to base anything on. But, TC scored the ‘garbage time’ TD early in the fourth, not to interject facts into the good emotional discussion...


So TCSF wasn't up 28-0 in the first half, and 35-0 in the 2nd?


35-0
35-6
42-6
pondrocket14
Yooper Freak
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:51 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby yoopernib2 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:00 pm

trautio wrote:It should be a better/stronger conference. Every school in it is larger than any west-pac team - every one. The whole Gladstone thing gets me...they had a good team last year - lost to Calumet tho at the end of the year. Gladstone wasn't kicked out because they "beat up" on everyone -that's BS. You will see a UP wide conference soon. Here is my argument to you though, UP football: You defend the GNC and teams in it - like the rest of the UP owes them something. They don't. They are larger, have great tradition and 9/10, yes, will win games vs the rest of the UP. They should. So why should those smaller schools have to play them? Because it's "UP football"? See you're knocking all these schools for not playing them - when you should be knocking the system - it's 6 wins and you're in. Like it or not. It is what it is. You can't blame schools for being in a "system" they didn't create. That's the MHSAA. Again, those smaller schools don't owe the GNC anything. It's not Negaunee's fault that Marquette is the only class A school in the UP. It's not Ishpeming's fault that they play schools their size. You complain about the GNC schools having to play these larger schools, but in essence you want these smaller UP teams to do the same thing. But your response has been "well, they are 3 times their size" - but where's the cutoff - where do you draw the line? Marquette is twice the size of Negaunee, three times the size of Ishpeming. I guess who decides where that line is drawn? If you are within 150 students? 12? 476? Your argument is well Menominee is nearly the same as Negaunee...agree...gladstone...agree...what about Esky, Marquette? That's where the problem lies. I see your point and agree with it to an extent. But to continually bash these teams and the West Pac isn't the answer- they found a solution that worked best for them - what your really upset about is that it didn't work best for everyone. We get that.

Thanks trautio you have said it better than most, The old MPC teams did what they had to do and I'd say it was a success. The future who knows, but these GNC people don't make it easy on themselves by putting down the WestPac every chance they get!!
User avatar
yoopernib2
Yooper Freak
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:57 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby GNCrocks » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:05 am

trautio wrote:It should be a better/stronger conference. Every school in it is larger than any west-pac team - every one. The whole Gladstone thing gets me...they had a good team last year - lost to Calumet tho at the end of the year. Gladstone wasn't kicked out because they "beat up" on everyone -that's BS. You will see a UP wide conference soon. Here is my argument to you though, UP football: You defend the GNC and teams in it - like the rest of the UP owes them something. They don't. They are larger, have great tradition and 9/10, yes, will win games vs the rest of the UP. They should. So why should those smaller schools have to play them? Because it's "UP football"? See you're knocking all these schools for not playing them - when you should be knocking the system - it's 6 wins and you're in. Like it or not. It is what it is. You can't blame schools for being in a "system" they didn't create. That's the MHSAA. Again, those smaller schools don't owe the GNC anything. It's not Negaunee's fault that Marquette is the only class A school in the UP. It's not Ishpeming's fault that they play schools their size. You complain about the GNC schools having to play these larger schools, but in essence you want these smaller UP teams to do the same thing. But your response has been "well, they are 3 times their size" - but where's the cutoff - where do you draw the line? Marquette is twice the size of Negaunee, three times the size of Ishpeming. I guess who decides where that line is drawn? If you are within 150 students? 12? 476? Your argument is well Menominee is nearly the same as Negaunee...agree...gladstone...agree...what about Esky, Marquette? That's where the problem lies. I see your point and agree with it to an extent. But to continually bash these teams and the West Pac isn't the answer- they found a solution that worked best for them - what your really upset about is that it didn't work best for everyone. We get that.


No GNC school has or will ever complain about playing a bigger school What they complain about is that those bigger schools WONT play them...

What I hear you saying is, its not our problem you cant find games in WI or LP anymore, dont bother us. Do I have that right?
GNCrocks
All UP
 
Posts: 1424
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:25 pm
Location: Da U.P.

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby GNCrocks » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:17 am

Better Idea.
Since the MHSAA is just an association (basically a club to join) why not just break off and join the WIAA and be done with it....
Draw a line Munising down to Manistique and every HS West, just join the WIAA. Get our 9 games, a better playoff format, schools that are willing to play us, teams that will respect, and even travel is better.
GNCrocks
All UP
 
Posts: 1424
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:25 pm
Location: Da U.P.

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby NeonDeion21 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:01 pm

LukeFSM wrote:
NeonDeion21 wrote:I apologize, I forgot it's 2018 and speaking objectively is not politically correct and is a sure fire way to offend people. :lol:
You ask me to cut Menominee some slack because they have dominated for 20 years- for sure you are right, they are one of the best programs in the history of the UP. Which has nothing to do with the fact that they directly contributed to the overall poor performance of the GNC ...THIS YEAR.
Gladstone- not down? hmmmm
Marquettte- got buried by TCSF. Wanna bet the winner of Calumet/ Westwood is better than -39 against TCSF??
Kingsford had a very hard schedule. I was surprised they lost to Esky and MQT, which is why I say they were down


This take aged well! But you were correct, Calumet only lost by 36 due to a garbage time TD. Escanaba is still playing though!



Still would have won that bet :lol: ...TCSF is very impressive. Im still not super impressed with Eskys opponents. Alma was a pretty good team and Esky did what they had to do. I gotta say though that this cannot be considered a down year by Esky as I previously stated. They havent done anything exceptional on the field but they figure out ways to win. They have grinded out some tough games against some pretty good teams. A district championship in the books and the road probably ends this weekend for them but I hope not!
The rest of the GNC was still very much down this year and most years, UPFootball, you are right its not even close. However... Ishpeming, Calumet and Westwood would have competed just fine in the GNC this year. Im sure the GNC will not be down for long....and i agree that we will be headed for 1 big UP conference soon. 2020 when the changes are made in Wisconsin and that will probably also be the time that some of the smaller schools in the west pac are tired of winning 1 or 2 games a year and make the switch to 8 man
NeonDeion21
Yooper Freak
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:26 pm

Re: Super U.P. conf. GNC/westpac Merger

Postby yoopernib2 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:03 pm

GNCrocks wrote:
trautio wrote:It should be a better/stronger conference. Every school in it is larger than any west-pac team - every one. The whole Gladstone thing gets me...they had a good team last year - lost to Calumet tho at the end of the year. Gladstone wasn't kicked out because they "beat up" on everyone -that's BS. You will see a UP wide conference soon. Here is my argument to you though, UP football: You defend the GNC and teams in it - like the rest of the UP owes them something. They don't. They are larger, have great tradition and 9/10, yes, will win games vs the rest of the UP. They should. So why should those smaller schools have to play them? Because it's "UP football"? See you're knocking all these schools for not playing them - when you should be knocking the system - it's 6 wins and you're in. Like it or not. It is what it is. You can't blame schools for being in a "system" they didn't create. That's the MHSAA. Again, those smaller schools don't owe the GNC anything. It's not Negaunee's fault that Marquette is the only class A school in the UP. It's not Ishpeming's fault that they play schools their size. You complain about the GNC schools having to play these larger schools, but in essence you want these smaller UP teams to do the same thing. But your response has been "well, they are 3 times their size" - but where's the cutoff - where do you draw the line? Marquette is twice the size of Negaunee, three times the size of Ishpeming. I guess who decides where that line is drawn? If you are within 150 students? 12? 476? Your argument is well Menominee is nearly the same as Negaunee...agree...gladstone...agree...what about Esky, Marquette? That's where the problem lies. I see your point and agree with it to an extent. But to continually bash these teams and the West Pac isn't the answer- they found a solution that worked best for them - what your really upset about is that it didn't work best for everyone. We get that.


No GNC school has or will ever complain about playing a bigger school What they complain about is that those bigger schools WONT play them...

What I hear you saying is, its not our problem you cant find games in WI or LP anymore, dont bother us. Do I have that right?

No GNCrocks LEARN to work with your possible future conference members, don't bash them. Like it or not the WestPac has worked. Who stood up and played Gladstone in this so called ''closed conference'' just for the love of the game, ya one of the teams you hope goes 8 man kinda sad.
User avatar
yoopernib2
Yooper Freak
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:57 pm

Previous

Return to Upper Peninsula Board

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests