2020 Changes

General board to discuss Upper Peninsula football.

Moderator: Moderator Group

2020 Changes

Postby Up Football Fan » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:26 pm

This thread is to discuss changes to U.P. football in 2020.


Munising School Board (voting on 11-20-19), voted unanimously to go to 8-player starting in 2020.

For the moment, this leaves the West PAC with 15 schools. Can Lake Linden-Hubbell be far behind?
Support your local school district.
User avatar
Up Football Fan
Moderator
 
Posts: 6392
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2002 6:45 pm
Location: Crystal Falls, MI

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby yoopernib2 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:15 am

And what about Norway??
User avatar
yoopernib2
UP Football Guru
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:57 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby upfootball » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:41 am

Its been reported that Lake Linden is going 8 man next year....

Also rumored is St Ignace.

The WestPAC looks to be losing the following to 8 man...

Munising
Lake Linden-Hubbell
Norway


The WestPAC will need to reconfigure. I hope they consider at least some of the GNC schools when doing that. Also hope they do not keep that conference closed. The small schools should not be forced to play the large schools. If they want to play them, they can schedule it themselves. Some should play and some should not. Its common sense.
User avatar
upfootball
Founder
 
Posts: 10063
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:40 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby GoBlue1 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:12 pm

I believe Norway and St. Ignace are staying 11-man for now. I am guessing that St. Ignace stays 11-man for 2 more years and then makes the switch.
GoBlue1
UP Fan
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:31 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby longball » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:11 pm

Iggy will most likely have no Seniors on the team next year, the 2 year window sounds about right. Norway is most likely going next year too.
longball
UP Football Guru
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:06 am

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby Finchwidget » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:22 pm

Thought I heard the GL West denied LLH entry... was that false, or are the Lakes going independent for a little while?

Also, with two teams leaving the West PAC, it can still survive; they could just add in another crossover game, I suppose. But with Norway dropping in the near future and the unstable future of Gogebic, I think theres going to be some big changes coming to it sooner rather than later.
Finchwidget
UP Fan
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:39 am

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby upfootball » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:22 am

Lakes are going independent next year is what I heard.

Heard Gogebic wants to go smaller division in WestPAC.

The playoffs are changing to playoff points. The WestPAC as is... is not sustainable in the future. Forcing schools who are 8 man eligible yet choose 11 man..... to crossover and play Calumet, Negaunee and such.... isnt the best of moves IMO.

Bark River vs Iron Mountain. Calumet vs Norway. Dumb low attendance games that are blowouts.

At the very least..... the WestPAC should scrap mandatory crossovers this year and look to the GNC schools for some games with its better programs. The GNC schools have openings. Lots of them. We already know the better programs can compete right? Whats the issue?

The WestPAC is not sustainable with more schools already with one foot out the door for the 8 man game. The Admins need to accept that and the new playoff system and move forward.
User avatar
upfootball
Founder
 
Posts: 10063
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:40 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby ftballfan » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:58 pm

upfootball wrote:Lakes are going independent next year is what I heard.

Heard Gogebic wants to go smaller division in WestPAC.

The playoffs are changing to playoff points. The WestPAC as is... is not sustainable in the future. Forcing schools who are 8 man eligible yet choose 11 man..... to crossover and play Calumet, Negaunee and such.... isnt the best of moves IMO.

Bark River vs Iron Mountain. Calumet vs Norway. Dumb low attendance games that are blowouts.

At the very least..... the WestPAC should scrap mandatory crossovers this year and look to the GNC schools for some games with its better programs. The GNC schools have openings. Lots of them. We already know the better programs can compete right? Whats the issue?

The WestPAC is not sustainable with more schools already with one foot out the door for the 8 man game. The Admins need to accept that and the new playoff system and move forward.


LLH going independent makes no sense unless:
(a) they're going to play a hybrid 8-man/11-man schedule
(b) they're banking on at least one WI 11-man school pulling the plug on their season
(c) they plan on playing more than one neutral site game against Lower Peninsula schools
ftballfan
UP Football Guru
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby upfootball » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:04 pm

Newberry was independent this year. They filled their schedule. Only scheduled one LP team (who forfeited).

Munising will be independent 8 man next year.

Norway may yet go to 8 man in 2020, making yet another independent.

Not sure if Newberry is joining a conference in 2020.

I am sure the schools who are making the move have done their homework. Just like Newberry did this past season.

Bark River is very close to the 8 man cutoff, but I have not heard any rumors of them thinking about going that route yet.

In the future will Gogebic consider breaking up again to try 8 man? Ironwood would qualify for 8 man. Bessemer-Wakefield combined enrollment is just barely over the cutoff right now too...

Ishpeming is right at the cutoff right now of 8 man qualifier..

Hancock could dump their co-op and go straight to 8 man...

L'Anse and Baraga could split and each go to 8 man...

Or more teams could co-op and get to a higher division...

The next few years could see a lot of change. The original teams from the WestPAC-MPC merger will likely be cut in 1/3.
User avatar
upfootball
Founder
 
Posts: 10063
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:40 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby Finchwidget » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:13 pm

I'm wondering what Manistique is going to do in the near future; seems like lately they get further removed (geographically speaking) from their competition. Just barely made it into the West PAC, and now all of the schools that could be considered close by to it (Munising, BRH, Norway) are growing closer to the 8 man game. Mano is still 80 or so students away from the cutoff, but I have to wonder if they might drop anyways if the situation gets dire enough.
Finchwidget
UP Fan
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:39 am

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby Eagle Backer » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:36 am

Finchwidget wrote:I'm wondering what Manistique is going to do in the near future; seems like lately they get further removed (geographically speaking) from their competition. Just barely made it into the West PAC, and now all of the schools that could be considered close by to it (Munising, BRH, Norway) are growing closer to the 8 man game. Mano is still 80 or so students away from the cutoff, but I have to wonder if they might drop anyways if the situation gets dire enough.

I would not be surprised to see Mano drop to 8 man. Coach Kangas attended the very first 8 man meetings back in 2008 because of interest then. I can't imagine it doesn't look really attractive at this point even without a playoff possibility.
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." Vince Lombardi
User avatar
Eagle Backer
All UP
 
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:03 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby upfootball » Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:14 pm

The problem for Mano is their enrollment is near 300. Nowhere near the cutoff. Given their location.... they seem stuck in accepting travel and playing 11 man. The programs that are close mostly went 8 man which puts Mano on an island.
User avatar
upfootball
Founder
 
Posts: 10063
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:40 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby GNCrocks » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:40 am

Man I have such a love/hate about 8-man football. I want ALL kids to be able to have a football program. But 8-man feels so "Arena Football" and loses a lot of the basics of football. But I also get it. But the other side too is that Co-ops need to stick with it and put 11-man teams on the field. Also seeing 35+ rosters in the state semi finals and finals this year was a big head scratch-er....oh so you have 34 kids on your team but you play 8-man? I know the argument is well half of those are 9th and 10th graders, well so what, so would everyone else you are playing...so are you only really playing 8-man for post season ease-ablility... Also No matter HOW many schools every go 8-man, there should only be 1 state champion. x2 right now is overkill, even if the # of schools were double it should only be 1. (in fairness the 11-man should only be 6 or 7 as well) Again love/hate. In the end I want kids to have a football program and that's always what matters.
GNCrocks
All UP
 
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:25 pm
Location: Da U.P.

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby Hambone » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:04 pm

What "basics" of football are you referring to? It still comes down to blocking and tackling. I completely agree with your thoughts on if you can have a 35 player roster, you should be playing 11 man football. This past weekend I watched the 9 man championship from Minnesota, it was great football. In a couple of weeks I will watch the two six man championships from Texas. It's still football, and I say that as a person who it took a long time to appreciate the 8 man game.

Co-ops only work if the schools involved are committed to making it work. All to often the schools get into a turf war about who gets to host the most games, what the team should be called, etc. It's not the players who aren't committed to the co-op it's the adults involved who can't let go of their "history".

I also agree that two 8 man championships is overkill, if more teams go that way I'm for expanding it. Eight divisions is not, there wasn't a Division 8 team that could've competed at all with Jackson Lumen Christi or PW. If you cap D-8 in the low 300's by going to 7 divisions the small schools will never have a chance. If you want to really kill football, take away more opportunities for state titles. Small schools who are keeping 11 man teams should not be punished by playing schools significantly bigger than they are.
User avatar
Hambone
Moderator
 
Posts: 3777
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 2:51 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby upfootball » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:06 pm

The thing that kills me about the two divisions is there are still only 32 teams that make the playoffs in 8 man. Splitting that into 2 divisions makes zero sense. The D2 8 man winner would have whooped the D1 8 man winner this year.
User avatar
upfootball
Founder
 
Posts: 10063
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:40 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby Eagle Backer » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:42 pm

upfootball wrote:The thing that kills me about the two divisions is there are still only 32 teams that make the playoffs in 8 man. Splitting that into 2 divisions makes zero sense. The D2 8 man winner would have whooped the D1 8 man winner this year.

The second division was probably created to keep the truly small schools from screaming their heads off when they keep raising the enrollment limit to allow schools with 200+ students into 8 man.
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." Vince Lombardi
User avatar
Eagle Backer
All UP
 
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:03 pm

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby longball » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:13 pm

upfootball wrote:The thing that kills me about the two divisions is there are still only 32 teams that make the playoffs in 8 man. Splitting that into 2 divisions makes zero sense. The D2 8 man winner would have whooped the D1 8 man winner this year.


Only 32 teams?? There's too many in the playoff's in both the 8 man game and in regular football. Way too many participation trophies being handed out
longball
UP Football Guru
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:06 am

Re: 2020 Changes

Postby upfootball » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:51 pm

Eagle Backer wrote:
upfootball wrote:The thing that kills me about the two divisions is there are still only 32 teams that make the playoffs in 8 man. Splitting that into 2 divisions makes zero sense. The D2 8 man winner would have whooped the D1 8 man winner this year.

The second division was probably created to keep the truly small schools from screaming their heads off when they keep raising the enrollment limit to allow schools with 200+ students into 8 man.

Agreed. IMO they installed it far too quickly before it was even close to being justified.

Would like to see both divisions have a 32 team tournament when there is enough schools available for that.
User avatar
upfootball
Founder
 
Posts: 10063
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:40 pm


Return to Upper Peninsula Board

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests