Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Conference talk for the Great Northern teams. Gladstone, Escanaba, Kingsford, Marquette, and Menominee

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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby GNCrocks » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:59 pm

End of game.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby Chavez » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:59 pm

Game over, Esky didn't use any timeouts, GRCC gets the shutout 24-0.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby GNCrocks » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:01 pm

Time of poss. Damn near 70/30.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby Hueby » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:50 pm

Though it's hard when it's all over, the 'Mo' s had a wonderful season. Something to build off.

Appreciate the updates as well as game updates throughout the season.

Really helped us displaced Yoopers follow U.P. football and made the forum a fun place to visit.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby Chavez » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:23 pm

GNCrocks wrote:Good back up brother...thanks.



No worries. Glad I was able to step in.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby upfootball » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:37 am

Terrific season for the Eskymos. Just a tough matchup with GRCC. The Mo's had a great team but were not big enough up front to go toe to toe with a team like GRCC.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby scoopnscore » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:44 am

Good season Esky, at the end of the day Grand Rapids Community College just did a better job of recruiting area talent and it showed on Saturday.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby nabafanfan » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:06 pm

They were the better team. Ignore the recruiting comments. Makes them sound like they cheated. Which they didnt.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby GNCrocks » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:18 am

The recruiting comments can not be totally ignored when you have a limitless boundary and scholarships to private school to offer kids from 30,40,60 miles away Or all the way from Wayland; And when 1 of your 4 "student admissions" officers office sits within the athletic department office and not with the other 3, its hard to NOT notice.

However, GRCC's game clock management was perfect, Keep Caroll off the field long enough to force Esky to go to passing game late....Game over.
That being said, Escanaba's season was great. To see 3 downstate teams have to come up to play IN Escanaba and watch them complain about it on other forms was diabolically satisfying to me.

Coach Dave Howes and AD Nick Nolde took what could have been a bad situation with Coach Hanson's departure and made Lemonade. Remember this season started with NO locker room, kids changing/dressing in tents for all of the pre-season, 2 back to back trips in weeks 2 & 3 below the bridge. A Menominee victory for firs time in 19 years, and sweeter yet in Menominee who has some of the worst crowd yelling (not noise, but substance) in all the U.P. made that even better. And although it did not turn out their way prob. one of the best GNC championship games played in recent memory at Kingsford that if played 100 times would be a 50/50 split. (Although I, and most Esky fans) still think it was highly inappropriate for the ambulance to turn on their lights on the final play of the game in Esky's view during the snap of the ball. Interesting enough, we are not the only school this has happened too...) It was a season for the ages. This team's picture will be forever up in the wall of the greats. They have nothing to hang their heads about. The Juniors on this team came in as one of the best JV teams last year for a long time and this year's JV team won the GNC at 8-1 I believe. Reload? Yup.

Should be an awesome GNC to watch next year....Gladstone back....Marquette will be FAST FAST FAST, Kingsford & Menominee typically ready and now Esky reloading and coached at a Menominee/Kingsford level. 2018 looks to be exciting as well for ALL.

Now if the MHSAA could lower the Divisions from 8 to 7, and have just (x1) 8-man playoffs and make a very hard multiplier/rules for private schools, the MHSAA could have a playoff system that could be modeled after.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby scoopnscore » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:05 am

Nabafan no one is saying they cheated. I have no doubt that they are operating within the rules of the MHSAA. What I and many others are pointing out is that those rules are unfair, especially in the smaller school divisions. Private schools make up only 13% of the high schools in the state. Yet since 200 they win state championships in football at a 40% clip. They have won division 5 65% of the time, divisions 4 and 7 47% of the time and division 8 53%. They have also won 32% of basketball titles (including half of class D which would be worse without NC's run) and 59% of Hockey titles (including 78% of division 3). Now either they have a competitive advantage due to the way they get athletes through their doors or this is just concrete proof of the power of prayer.
I haven't failed, I have just found 10,000 ways that won't work - Thomas Edison
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby GNCrocks » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:43 pm

Exactly. GRCC does not break any rules; the rules just heavily favor them.
When a student in Rockford is driving out of and then through 6 other public school boarders to attend and play for GRCC for the sole purpose of sports; That is an advantage. Its not like the bad players are leaving to go play for them.

Again well within the rules, but being able to pull the best athaletes from 20+ school districts vs. just stuck with what you have, there is a difference.

GRCC and GRWC ect...are not breaking any rules, but to make the playing field fair there needs to be a change.

1. Have their own 2 divisions. D1-D4 in 1, D5-D8 in another let them play their own 2 playoff divisions. If you do this, you reduce public schools to 6 divisions and only one division for 8-man, (which should be anyways). The MHSAA needs to discourage 8-man, not continue to coddle it.
-or-
2. The best option is a set of "equalizers". Here are the best Ideas I have heard of or currently in use...(you would take SOME of these but not all like pick 2 of the following in any combination and go.)
- Play 2 divisions higher than you are, there would be no private schools in D7, D8 playoffs, also private schools could not play 8-man.
- Public School victories over Private schools count 1 class higher than they area. Class A school size would be 88 pts not 80; Private school victories over Public schools count as 1 class lower than the team they played. Class D would be 26 pts not 32.
- NO SOS/Bonus Point structure for private schools. They just get the straight up win points (80,64,48,32). However, public schools are awarded SOS/BP from private games at a multiplier of 1.5.
- Example if the SOS/BP would normally be 7.05, if its from a Private school they get 10.575 instead. Again NO SOS.BP for private schools no matter who they play even other private schools, no bonus point structure for them period.
- No home playoff games for Private schools vs public schools regardless of Playoff points. Only vs. other private schools.
- Private schools would have own districts/regional of other private schools to weed down to no more than 1 private school could possibly advance to semi-finals for each division. For instance Region 4 would be strictly for private schools only. regardless of geographic location.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby Soldier in Colorado » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:05 pm

I do agree that something has to be done with the private schools.

Whether you like it or not, 8-man football is here to stay. You are correct in that there are too many divisions for football as it is, IMO I would keep the two divisions for 8-man and narrow the 11-man to 6 divisions. Alternatively, and this is unlikely IMO, if more very small (less than 125 pop.) schools express interest in football, you could designate the 8-man, division 2 into a 6-man championship. There's a handful of states that do that.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby upfootball » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:43 pm

If the participation justified it I would keep 2 Divisions for 8 Man. It absolutely does not. There were 61 Eight Man teams this year. They gave them two championships. That is ridiculous. 1 Champion per 30 teams? Really?

Honestly, I think there should be one Champion per 80-90 teams.

There are 550 Eleven man football programs, 61 Eight man football programs. 10 Total Champions are crowned. 62 teams per Trophy. Not sure how the MHSAA gave 8 Man 30 teams per trophy for Eight Man. It doesn't make sense. Don't call it an enrolment thing either. The football enrollment of the two Eight Man Champions were 146 and 191 respectively.

If I had my choice. There would be 7 Eleven man Championships, 1 Eight man. All would be at Ford Field.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby Hambone » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:03 pm

My comments may not be politically correct, but here goes. Comparing GRCC and GRWC to Esky and Menominee is like comparing apples to oranges. The only thing similar is enrollment. You cannot compare student bodies or the number of available student/athletes. GRCC and GRWC don't have kids on free/reduced lunch or special education students in their districts, they don't have to take them and would rather have the state pay. Chances are Esky and Menominee are similar to other districts in the U.P. and are around 60-70 percent free/reduced lunch. These two areas greatly affect participation numbers. Both schools also draw students from the second largest TV market in the state. Either they put in a multiplier or a success factor or there will never be a level playing field. Private schools should not be winning a disproportionate number of state titles.
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Re: Escanaba vs GRCC - 2017 Div 4 Semi-Finals

Postby Hueby » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:45 pm

I don’t dislike private schools but if were ever part of one, I’d rather just play private schools. Really don’t understand why they aren’t separate. Seems to go against separation of church and state.
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